I always interpreted the "dragons to ride" part as negative rather than positive - the dragons to ride being monsters that must be conquered.
On second thought, I agree with your idea about the Witnesses, especially the bit about not having the right to raise them, and thus, you know, put them in a state of such terrible pain and rage that they would do things that they would (probably) not want to in a cooler state. That their grudges are justified (at least beyond the "you should have tried harder / tried at all")? I'd be wary of laying down that one, just because while, yes, the end result is the same - there were many people that the Winchesters have gotten killed over the years - the actions they took that caused this, and the rationale that informed the actions, varied a great deal. Some people, they were trying to protect. Some people, they just didn't figure it out in time, or the choice was taken away from them (the demons Ruby killed), or they were literally in a them-or-me position (the host of Azazel's "son"). Because they're human, I assume this extends to the ghosts of pretty much all the hunters, but I don't know about them to talk, so I'll just focus on the Winchester ghosts. Of the three that rose, one of them - Henrickson - was both killed and involved in the supernatural through no fault of their own. They were the reason for his death, yes, but they didn't choose to have him investigate them and thus get himself (Henrickson) in a dangerous situation; that was the FBI and Henrickson himself. Likewise, they weren't responsible for the demon getting out - the deputy was - or for Lillith killing him, and I can think of no conceivable action they would have taken that would have prevented the latter, other than the "sacrifice the virgin" plan, which a) had no guarantee that would have worked, anyway, and b) doesn't seem like something Henrickson would have allowed anyway.
As far as Ronald, the vehicle of his death is similarly not their fault. The fact that he's embroiled in the situation, however, is both his own fault (he was not forced to take an AK-47 and hold up a bank) and the Winchester's, because they didn't tell him, but one could argue that, while there might have been some other motivations at work, the more overriding one was that they were trying to protect him. Winchester Logic: He's not trained for this work, and would only be put in danger were he to involve himself in it. Therefore, what good would it do for him to know the truth? It's not going to bring him any salve, only more pain. (As Sam - and later, Dean - says in ...Children Are Our Future, "I wish Dad hadn't told us about [the supernatural]." It's obvious that, in their heart of hearts, both brothers think that, given a choice, being blissfully ignorant of the supernatural is better than being aware and either helpless or a Hunter.) So, yes, they made a mistake, but there's such a mess of good intentions and unknown variables here that it's impossible to say there could have been a right choice. Even if they told him, it's obvious they weren't going to let him on the hunt, and so Ronald very well might have ended up in the same situation, minus the "mandroid".
As for Meg... Did the brothers even know that demons could exist in a person before she took the dive off the roof? (I believe the first time it was mentioned was in Born Under a Bad Sign.)
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branchandroot
Re: strong arms for a skinny girl [part one of two!]
Date: 2010-01-09 04:40 am (UTC)I always interpreted the "dragons to ride" part as negative rather than positive - the dragons to ride being monsters that must be conquered.
On second thought, I agree with your idea about the Witnesses, especially the bit about not having the right to raise them, and thus, you know, put them in a state of such terrible pain and rage that they would do things that they would (probably) not want to in a cooler state. That their grudges are justified (at least beyond the "you should have tried harder / tried at all")? I'd be wary of laying down that one, just because while, yes, the end result is the same - there were many people that the Winchesters have gotten killed over the years - the actions they took that caused this, and the rationale that informed the actions, varied a great deal. Some people, they were trying to protect. Some people, they just didn't figure it out in time, or the choice was taken away from them (the demons Ruby killed), or they were literally in a them-or-me position (the host of Azazel's "son"). Because they're human, I assume this extends to the ghosts of pretty much all the hunters, but I don't know about them to talk, so I'll just focus on the Winchester ghosts. Of the three that rose, one of them - Henrickson - was both killed and involved in the supernatural through no fault of their own. They were the reason for his death, yes, but they didn't choose to have him investigate them and thus get himself (Henrickson) in a dangerous situation; that was the FBI and Henrickson himself. Likewise, they weren't responsible for the demon getting out - the deputy was - or for Lillith killing him, and I can think of no conceivable action they would have taken that would have prevented the latter, other than the "sacrifice the virgin" plan, which a) had no guarantee that would have worked, anyway, and b) doesn't seem like something Henrickson would have allowed anyway.
As far as Ronald, the vehicle of his death is similarly not their fault. The fact that he's embroiled in the situation, however, is both his own fault (he was not forced to take an AK-47 and hold up a bank) and the Winchester's, because they didn't tell him, but one could argue that, while there might have been some other motivations at work, the more overriding one was that they were trying to protect him. Winchester Logic: He's not trained for this work, and would only be put in danger were he to involve himself in it. Therefore, what good would it do for him to know the truth? It's not going to bring him any salve, only more pain. (As Sam - and later, Dean - says in ...Children Are Our Future, "I wish Dad hadn't told us about [the supernatural]." It's obvious that, in their heart of hearts, both brothers think that, given a choice, being blissfully ignorant of the supernatural is better than being aware and either helpless or a Hunter.) So, yes, they made a mistake, but there's such a mess of good intentions and unknown variables here that it's impossible to say there could have been a right choice. Even if they told him, it's obvious they weren't going to let him on the hunt, and so Ronald very well might have ended up in the same situation, minus the "mandroid".
As for Meg... Did the brothers even know that demons could exist in a person before she took the dive off the roof? (I believe the first time it was mentioned was in Born Under a Bad Sign.)