vanitashaze | [meta] 5.13 - unfortunately, the song really does remain the same

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[meta] 5.13 - unfortunately, the song really does remain the same

One: What? I thought the whole point was that angels hadn't come down to earth in thousands of years, and Castiel was the first one. That Dean was the trigger. The whole "Uriel pops down casually" thing just cheapens the whole mythology. Like - what? He didn't have a bigger reaction to being the first angel to once again walk the earth? It's just, I like smiting?

Secondly: So, forty years in the past, before Uriel has even clapped eyes on his vessel, and he's still a scary violent black man who takes orders from a white woman? I mean, come on. They could have made him anyone. One, vessels don't matter to angels, and two, Uriel hasn't even encountered his future vessel, so it's not like he has associations or anything. And so the fact that they specifically chose a male, black actor - who even physically resembles the previous male, black actor - means that they were consciously casting the cruelest - "I like smiting" - most violent, least sympathetic* character as a black man.

Just - dude! Get your racist head out of your hindparts!

*At least Anna's motivations, we understood, and were meant to sympathize with. There was emotional resonance. Whereas, Uriel was given an excuse - "they killed you in the future" - but there was no emotional resonance or empathy at all. He was just a plot point, a tool.

ETA: The only thing I could think of that would not make this the biggest race!fail since - well, the last one - is if past!Uriel's vessel was supposed to be a younger version of future!Uriel's vessel. Which would actually be really interesting, and I want to hear more about that, and why. But since they didn't hint towards that, I'm going to assume the worst.

ETA 2: Okay, so the consensus seems to be that it really was a young Uriel. In which case: Well, the problem still stands. Instead of having two black male characters who are violent and toolish, we have one who is even more so. Not really an improvement, in my opinion.

ETA 3: ...I wonder if experiencing being a black man in 1970s America had any effect on future!Uriel's determination to bring about the apocalypse.

ETA 4: Basically, this episode? I liked the first five minutes or so, right up until title sequence, or whatever it's called - I love the Dean-Anna dynamic and the gentle old-ex feeling; the hints that, had they been allies, they would have been friends - and the last two minutes - OH MY GOD CREEPY - and the bits with Castiel, because Misha Collins is the only actor I've seen so far who really gets the otherness of angels. (Collins' acting talent is about 60% of why I love Castiel.) Everyone else just treats them like they're human, and while I could buy Anna acting like that, everyone else - no. Not so much. So, sorry,

ticketsonmyself - your fears were entirely justified.

ETA 5: What the fuck? Why is fandom so gleeful over Anna's death? SHE WAS A COOL CHARACTER, PEOPLE! THE ACTRESS WAS KEANU-REEVESESQUE BUT THE CHARACTER WAS COOL! Also, how much did everyone love that her roots were showing? The bottle-red we had previously seen had faded a lot, and there were brown roots. I don't know why I loved that so much, exactly, but it was such an intersection - human Anna obviously cared about her hair a lot (trust me, it takes a lot of dyeing and maintenance to build up to that color), and angel Anna doesn't even notice. It's such a weirdly human thing, really, and a constant reminder of her imprisonment.

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My reaction was... how could it be that the episode is filled with EVEN MORE FAIL than I anticipated?? Unkindly, but with some justification, I had to conclude that even when I've resigned myself beforehand to "full of fail" the show outdoes my expectations. In the opposite direction.

Instead of having two black male characters who are violent and toolish, we have one who is even more so. Not really an improvement, in my opinion.

True fact.

I wonder if experiencing being a black man in 1970s America had any effect on future!Uriel's determination to bring about the apocalypse.

I've read that story, but set before the twentieth century. (I mean, this before we knew that Uriel popped down in the '70s.) I have to say it's pretty ridiculously awful no matter how you slice it.

In conclusion, I wish the show and fandom didn't keep living down to... well, the first review I saw on TV.com for the episode was raving about how awesome it was that Anna died, among other things. I actually had some faith in TV.com reviewers for other shows like Homicide and iCarly, specifically with respect to being able to identify racism on a Watsonian or Doylist level, but I guess I was expecting too much. Again.

I did think Anna's roots showing was a nice character detail.

The first review I saw on TV.com for the episode was raving about how awesome it was that Anna died, among other things. I know we've been saying this a lot, but what? Why do people hate her so much? At this point I feel like Amy Poehler, you know, going: Really, people? Really?

I've read that story, but set before the twentieth century. Do you have a link?

Watsonian? Doylist? iCarly? Eh?

I do hope next week's episode will be not so failtastic. Though considering we're talking about a rogue cupid on Valentines - and thus, sex under the influence, and Dean's feelings towards women & sex - I doubt it.

She's a female character on SPN? And hooked up with Dean? (Uh, ONE TIME? Seriously, people.)

Fanlore glossary on Watsonian vs. Doylist (http://fanlore.org/wiki/Watsonian_vs._Doylist) interpretations of the text. I just brought up iCarly because reviewers of one episode surprised me by universally being able to identify blatant racism on the part of the narrative, so what with that and the generally astute reviews I've seen for Homicide episodes on TV.com, I expected more.

"Alone in my Father's house," (http://archon-mentha.livejournal.com/190080.html#cutid1) warnings for aftermath of rape of an OC, plus the type of gory violence you'd expect in SPN.

sex under the influence, and Dean's feelings towards women & sex

Well, my thanks for the warning! Argh argggh.

Oh, correction: it's not an OC, even though I thought of her that way in the story.

It's not an OC, even though I thought of her that way in the story. Agreed! I had absolutely no idea who they were taking about until I got to the author's notes. And, the type of gory violence you'd expect in SPN - unfortunately, it's not so much SPN gory violence as what actually happened, there, and in some/many places continues to happen.

I like it, though. Do you know if anyone's written any Uriel!vessel fic?

On further examination, it appears that the episode is about gluttony of all types - sexual, but also food, drink, and other addictions - so maybe it won't be quite as bad as we fear.

unfortunately, it's not so much SPN gory violence as what actually happened, there, and in some/many places continues to happen.

That's all too true.

I caught on that it was Nat Turner as soon as I saw "Nathan," but I had no idea about Joan of Arc until the end.

Not to my knowledge - honestly, fic that has any depth of character for Uriel himself is pretty scarce, though I've looked. (And along the way, found a one-shot with Anna, Castiel, Uriel, and the Winchester brothers in a bowling alley. ...yeah, there's not much more to it, but I thought you might be a little amused to hear about that.)

it appears that the episode is about gluttony of all types - sexual, but also food, drink, and other addictions - so maybe it won't be quite as bad as we fear.

Hopefully! Maybe more spoilers will roll out before Thursday.

I caught on that it was Nat Turner as soon as I saw "Nathan," but I had no idea about Joan of Arc until the end. Ah yes, I probably should have clarified. Ditto.

And along the way, found a one-shot with Anna, Castiel, Uriel, and the Winchester brothers in a bowling alley. ...yeah, there's not much more to it, but I thought you might be a little amused to hear about that. OH GOD YES. LINK LINK LINK. (Whatever are they doing there?)

There's a promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg6EaxZebH0) and two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GbEQESG8wE&feature=related) clips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvTy1IrucyY&feature=related) on YouTube, if you're interested. (There's not too much in them, but the general flavor seems to be... not so bad. And I loved the mythology about the cupids.)

"The Sound of Angels Bowling." (http://sockkiah.livejournal.com/117759.html) They're... bowling. To celebrate Dean's birthday.

There's also Dean and flashback Cas and flashback Uriel.. in the form of seals. (http://sockkiah.livejournal.com/114306.html#cutid1)

“Seals are pure in spirit,” said Uriel. He had some issues with seal habits, but overall he approved of them much more than other earth species. Castiel felt freed by this.

The YouTube clips don't look too bad, yeah. Let's hope!

DEAR LORD WHAT.

I suppose it's true what they say about the internet: if you can think of it, it will have been written! ~~Or is that referring to porn?~~

Have you read the one about Cas possessing a laptop?

Rule 34 is the one referring to porn, hee!

Have you read the one about Cas possessing a laptop?

Probably not, though I think I've seen variations on "Cas starts using an Instant-messaging program." If it's anything on the level of crack like seal!fic, I'm preemptively battening down the mental hatches! (And yet I still want to read it...)

There should also be a Rule 34 in reference to LOL cats, I think.

The fic is... subdued crack, I think. Refined crack.

luchia13, the author, is the master of the art of refined crack. (Dinosaurs, mafias, chi chis - the stuff that comes out of this girl's head is completely random and weird, and I love it!) The magical laptop is here (http://community.livejournal.com/fic_of_lu/8606.html).

LOLcats Rule 34! I like it!

Chi chis?

The magical laptop is indeed magical! Though I was disappointed that Dean didn't stab him anyway. I guess it's less overwhelming when your first acquaintance is via laptop.

She Taught Every Angel to Rearrange the Sky (http://luchia13.livejournal.com/189595.html). Ellen Harvelle's bar gets some angelic visitors, mostly because the angelic visitors need some help dealing with non-angelic people. And advice for hitting on Dean.

Ah, yenta fic.

I did like that part:

“Anna challenged Castiel to a drinking contest. They were twirling a quarter with their angel powers or something, and when they couldn’t twirl them anymore they asked me what they could use the quarters for, and I told them two quarters could get you a song from the jukebox.” She grimaced. “They picked the one with ‘hallelujah’ and ‘amen’ in it.”

I did love that part too, because, well, of course they would do that. And this:

Castiel nodded again, and turned to give the man in front of him an excited look. “Did you know Mother Nature’s a single woman, Dean?”

“She’s going to teach every angel to rearrange the sky,” Anna added. “And then help all the women find the perfect guy.”

“Let me guess,” Dean said dryly. “It’s raining men.”

“Hallelujah,” Ellen finished.

Well, okay, it's yenta fic, but I have respect for the classics. Actually, I think

luchia13 pulled off the cliche fairly well - as a bartender, Ellen probably did have experience with those sort of problems (along with the hunter angst), and though I could have done with a little less Dean, Cas, and Anna, and more Ellen, I was very happy with the bits we did get. Ellen was Ellen, and not the usual "I have a strange, at times creepy fascination with my friends' and acquaintances' relationships and no respect for boundaries at all" that usually characterizes yenta fics. Basically, in conclusion: YAY ELLEN.

That part was spot on, too! Mostly, though, it didn't really click for me. It's true, I can think of at least one yenta fic I've loved in a different fandom, for a pairing to which (as with Castiel/Dean) my reaction has settled somewhere between indifference and mild interest. It's probably that I can't take yenta fic unless I find it funnier, I guess. Also I was confused by this: “If I could bless you without damning you at the same time, I would,” Anna said quietly. But yeah, avoiding a creeptastic, no-boundaries level of preoccupation with others' relationships - at least with respect to Ellen's POV - is a standard of quality the author did meet!

I read that line as a commentary on Anna's opinion of what happens to people she cares about. Like, "everything she touches is destroyed". Alternatively, it might be the blessing would call down the angels and they would hurt Ellen. Or something.

I like your readings VERY MUCH! Suddenly Anna-in-the-story is a LOT more interesting to me.

"Turtle Eclipse of the Heart," which is goofy in a way that makes me smile, from the title on down. I enjoy the dialogue and narrative voice - pretty much equally goofy! It's Kowalski/Vecchio, PG-rated, which suits me fine. Mainly I like how the story reminds me of how much I've enjoyed all the characters involved and how ridiculous but likeable they can all be. (I know the biggest pairing in dS fandom is Fraser/Kowalski, which is plenty slashy, but even though I like Kowalski a lot I didn't like Fraser as much in S3-S4 due to overall changes in the show's tone and characterizations, so I could never really get behind that 'ship. If I had to pick one dS pairing, it would probably be Fraser/Vecchio, but mostly I just kind of wish there were more gen in the fandom!)

This is my secret power - making slightly bland and meta characters suddenly a whole lot more interesting!

Though I will read it and probably enjoy it - because, of course, you don't rec subpar fic - I can't comment on the pairing wars you noted in your commentary. Sadly, I am not that familiar with due South, which I'm sure reflects in some horrible way on my fangirl identity - because, really? A fanfiction writer saying she's not familiar with due South? It's like saying you don't know anything about Highlander! Which, um, I'm not familiar with either. Anyways... I don't know if you like Sherlock Holmes, but I did recently come across another yenta fic that I thought was very well done. Holmes strikes me as a little bit out of character in it, but maybe it's because I'm only slightly familiar with the canon - maybe he really is that congenial - but the story features a Watson and Irene Adler that I like very much, and though Adler serves as the yenta to the Holmes/Watson, it's dealt with quite respectfully and believably. Thoughts Without Words, by Katie Forsyth. Rather long - 15000 words.

Speaking of Sherlock Holmes, if you're into Mary, I strongly suggest you check out the Clever Woman, Doctor's Wife series. It features AWESOME Mary, who is feminist in a believably Victorian way, a well-done Mary/Watson, and eventually a well-done OT3. Mary and Holmes' relationship is quite clever, too, and I love how she doesn't roll over, but rather, they're drawn as intriguing to each other and, though different, quite well-matched.

Best pick-up line ever:

"Hey, Vecchio," he said softly. Ray looked up, and Kowalski gave him a soft bright smile. "You wanna put down that tomato?"

This has nothing to do with dS, but in case you haven't seen it already, I recently watched the best vid for Jo I've ever encountered yet - funny, wry, sharply bittersweet, heartbreaking in ways that are absolutely true to her character and her story and its unfulfilled promise. It's set to Ani DiFranco's "God's Country": You know I have left everywhere I have ever been.

Fraser, canonically, is a guy who's highly guarded in terms of his self-perceived points of emotional vulnerability, but who also has a weird and somewhat invasive sense of personal space/boundaries! (Y'know, hence the slashy.) Often charming, sometimes off-putting.

I know little about Highlander besides the basic premise, the basic premise of the spinoff, what's in this wacky picspam of an episode (incidentally, by the author of "Turtle Eclipse of the Heart," who's a Nicholas Lea fan! the actor guested on that HL episode... I enjoyed Krycek on The X-Files and that's about all I know of Nick Lea), and what's in this gen crossover short with House (I don't even know what Watchers on HL are, but I highly recommend the oneshot based on its excellent characterization of House). So, nothing more than what I got through fannish osmosis, but - like you, I'm guessing - I've never been all that interested in HL either.

At a glance, Adler is charming in "Thoughts Without Words," but you're right - Holmes is kind of OOC (many years ago, I was a little interested in the books). I'm not really into Sherlock Holmes, but I will take a closer look at the stories later! Thank you for the recs. The "Clever Woman, Doctor's Wife" series looks sweet and kind of promising, and the installments are short!

Heeeee! TURTLE.

Oh, I envy your not-really-into-Sherlock-Holmes-ness. I am quickly falling head over heels for the characters, if not the fandom - a great deal of it consists of the Victorian purple prose that I CANNOT STAND, and has some iffy gender issues what with Mary - and the new movie makes me squeal, but it's a bittersweet love, as I know I will never in a million years be able to write anything for it. I have my writing style, and I really can't emulate anyone else's; same with all the other art forms, except music (to a limited degree). It's really one of my great failings.

But yes, let me know how the readings go! If you're into it, there's a series AU by the same author that's a delightful Holmes/Mary/Watson/Adler, with absolutely perfect characterization.

I had just assumed he was the younger version of Uriel's original vessel. As far as I know there are speculations that some are vessels which "fit" some angels better than others. The "weaker" the angel the more possible vessels, but there is still one which fits the best.
"The Soul-Piece" recently had a chapter about the choosing of vessels...

I'm actually quite disappointed that it was Micheal who killed Anna. I wouldn't have minded so much if it had been Castiel who'd killed her because I imagine he would have been really conflicted over it afterwards and it would have showed off his loyalty to the Winchesters again. (More so than killing those random angels because he and Anna seem to have shared some sort of bond).
And if he'd saved them the whole "angels are watching over you" would have made more sense... *sigh* It's pretty creepy that Micheal just manipulated Mary like that though... *shivers*

BTW, what did you think of Micheal? I loved how John's actor pulled it off (scaaary) but I would have liked it better if they had done something else with Micheal's character...

IN CONCLUSION: More Cas. And I kind of liked the episode *drop*

Yeah, I did realize the thing about young!Uriel later, and though I'm happy about the continuity, I think my point still stands, albeit a little bit modified. It's no secret that SPN writers have a serious problem with violence & black men - Jake, Gordon Walker - and while taken as isolated incidents, the violence makes sense, as a general pattern, it's... disturbing, to say the least. And I'm really disappointed that they took what could have been an awesome moment for Uriel characterization - my god, that whole night must have been an enormous paradigm switch! He found out that he was going to die! - and turned him into a convenient tool for his (white) commander. (See: Jake.) For chrissakes, Castiel's not the hammer, Uriel is. A tool with little of the depth of emotion that is given to pretty much all the other characters on the show. And this episode is just a continuation of that overall theme.

To be honest, depending on what direction they were going in, I would have been happy if A) Anna was not killed at all, but dealt with some other way - perhaps had her Grace ripped out? That way she would still be alive and there could be the possibility for further alliance with the Winchesters? Or temporarily depowered? I like angel!Anna but I can't see how they would get out of that situation without her incapacitated somehow, OR, B) If they were going the whole

trinityofone's Fire of Heaven, Dean-is-Michael route, have Dean kill her. I'm actually pretty glad that Castiel wasn't there, all things considered. He would have been smote by Michael in a heartbeat. And, to be honest, I think Cas is plenty loyal to the Winchesters, and killing Anna would be something that he would not come back from. Not entirely, anyway. It would change him, and not for the better. On one hand, being close to the Winchesters has been good for him. But on the other - not really. People too close, too dependent on the Winchesters tend to come to bad ends, simply because they're so wrapped up in each other, and mostly blind to everyone else.

The sad truth is, Dean is always going to choose Sam first, and Castiel will never mean as much to Dean as his brother. They can work within that, sure; it doesn't exclude Dean and Cas from having a meaningful relationship. But binding Cas closer to them, so that they're everything he has left, is dangerous. That's what happened to Sam and Dean, thanks to John, and look how that worked out.

I... was not actually too fond of John's actor's portrayal of him. I mentioned the whole thing about the otherness of angels (and by extension, demons), right? To me, Michael's movement/behavior/speech patterns were way too... human. Like, my favorite demons/angels on the show so far have been the first Meg, Castiel, the last Alistair, Castiel-in-Claire, and the Azazels, just because there was something - not right, not human, about how they acted. It made your hackles raise. Whereas, MIchael-in-John was more comic book supervillain creepy than inhumanly so. Kind of cheesy and not very interesting. And, yeah. Not terribly enthused about the direction they're taking his character. (Really, I would have been happy had he never shown up. I really liked the thing they had going before - how Zachariah was going to use Dean as bait to get MIchael to show up, because he's missing. That, in my opinion, would have been much better - like the Trickster is Gabriel thing! I loved that! - and further established the fucked-upedness of heaven.)

THERE IS NO EPISODE THAT DOES NOT NEED MORE CAS.

I'LL NEED SOME TIME TO REWATCH BEFORE REPLYING TO THIS!
No, srsly, your thinky thoughts make me go all mushy inside! ♥ (Mostly because I don't have them...)
I seem to have a problem detecting racism when it's not really obvious. But more on that later, I have to go to bed now! Ugh, getting up at 6 in the morning to go to school really isn't a very motivating thought... :/

I HAVE MANY THINKY THOUGHTS. YES. Seriously, I'm glad you like them so much! Most people refuse to watch TV with me because I talk so much about it afterwards, and then they can't enjoy things vapidly. It's kind of my superpower.

Ugh, getting up at 6 in the morning to go to school really isn't a very motivating thought... :/ I do that every day, and I still think, upon reading this: EWWWWW. Unless you want to be up, no one should have to be awake at that time in the morning.

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[meta] 5.13 - unfortunately, the song really does remain the same

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re: the chi chis

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I want a Sherlock Holmes icon. Actually, I want more icon space in general.

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